Curse

Meimei · Jul 08, 2005, 08:18 AM // 08:18

I've seen ppl looking for mes for shutdown all the time and have never mention about hammer war. No matter how awsome i describe what i can do ppl just dont invite me.

ju6ganutz · Jul 08, 2005, 11:48 AM // 11:48

work on ur rank... join a guild that is competetive switch ur 2ndardy to elementalist for aftershock...

none · Jul 08, 2005, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meimei

I've seen ppl looking for mes for shutdown all the time and have never mention about hammer war. No matter how awsome i describe what i can do ppl just dont invite me.

Try to find a group as a Mesmer in PvE ...

kungfumonkey2 · Jul 08, 2005, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by none

Try to find a group as a Mesmer in PvE ...

Tru Dat,

I have a lvl 20 Monk who gets at least 5 invites as soon as I walk into an area. My mesmer zones in an area... Nothing but a rustling tumbleweed and crickets to keep him company. Everyone has their niche.

The n00b to 1337 ratio in the Warrior ranks is greatly dispraportionate <sp?>. If you are a decent player and a warrior you fall into the .1% group. You are being lumped in with all of the other head cases that are warriors though. Why? because you look like them. People are judging you on how you loo. Yes, unfortunately GW has racial profiling, but it is more like Class Profiling.

My advice, either make your own groups. Play with your guild. Or, make another character that is more accepted in PvP.

Albeit Warriors are more effective in the 4vs4 arenas. You might go there and hang out. No need to get a party just join the mission, and you get a new group fo friends each time. YAY!

Darkest Dawn · Jul 08, 2005, 04:02 PM // 16:02

LOL, I get the same responses. When out in a mission I communicate that I would like the casters to let us know when their energy is low so we can stop for them. I also lay back with the group until it is time to become the meat shield. Know what I get as a response? "Oh, a warrior that is good, haven't seen this before" lol. They seem shocked that I communicate, and work as a team player. If this is the reaction, then it makes me wonder about the "other" 99% or so!

catharsis · Jul 08, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kungfumonkey2

I have a lvl 20 Monk who gets at least 5 invites as soon as I walk into an area. My mesmer zones in an area... Nothing but a rustling tumbleweed and crickets to keep him company. Everyone has their niche.

I have the same problem with my Me/N.. I find I can obviate it a little bit by mentioning that I'm an anti-caster with Enfeebling Blood to hex meleeists.

Mind you, that still rarely works. So what I do instead is MAKE a group. Forget about waiting for invites. Start by picking up other people who are LFG.. Once your party reaches 3-4, it's a LOT easier to fill it up than when you're wandering about on your own.

Truth is, most people are not very imaginative. They concentrate on offense, and want to see damage, because it's the most obvious way to win. It's like (if I can use a football reference) the KC Chiefs of a few years ago. Their staggeringly powerful offense got them all sorts of wins for a while. But when they ran into REAL competition, they were exposed as one-dimensional, and their lack of defense got them roasted.

So YES, a good lightning spiker or warrior can do a lot of damage. But *I* can keep multiple hill giants doing a fraction of their regular damage from the beginning of a fight to the end. Comes in REAL handy if they're, say, pounding on the monk.

Support, right now, is extremely underrated.

----------

As for the whole warrior thing (sorry for getting off-topic).. That's just it. People expect warriors to be idiots, because so many are. Hammer warriors are excellent shutdown characters. Hell, knockdowns are the BEST interrupt there is. Somebody laying flat on his back for the duration of a fight = useless. And hammers ALSO happen to do some pretty serious damage to knocked-down opponents.

As far as I'm concerned, axe warriors and hammer warriors are different but equal in value. Sword.. meh. With the exception of DoT, anything a sword can do, an axe can do better. And bleeding is really only so useful once you get out of Pre-Sear.

Sajittarius · Jul 08, 2005, 10:24 PM // 22:24

here is an example why i try not to grab too many warriors (yes i know warrior played well is a great addition to a team)... They just changed the starting mission of tombs to where you fight an AI controlled team of various Unworthy classes which though random always includes 2 monks. Yesterday i played with a pick up group where half the team went after the monk i was supposed to be shutting down and the other half went for the other monk like they were supposed to (and which i told them to before the fight, and they agreed). Except the warrior, who thought killing the Unworthy Necromancer would be fun, or something. Needless to say neither monk died and we didn't kill anything, and after being rezzed twice and the entire pt repeatedly asking the warrior to hit the right target, or even to just switch targets to one of the monks, i quit the pt in disgust. I know not all warriors are dumb, but it seems like the percentage of stupid warriors is greater than that of any other class. Its sad that the good warriors have to deal with sort of thing, but maybe they should watch out for crappy warriors and let them know what they are doing wrong. Or maybe guild wars needs some sort of IQ test before they let u into tourneys....

Creed · Jul 09, 2005, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Hammer warriors dont shut anyone down. Maybe that's why?

Hammer warrior are for interruption.

Mesmers and Necros to a lesser extenct and shut down other classes, but a warrior cannot shut anyone down. (Unless you're planning on using Fear me with a sword and a way of doubling adrenline and a way of speeding up attack, but that's energy denial).

Anyway: Sympathetic visage / empathy / blind > shuts down any warrior.
Weakness / insidious parasite / feint heartedness > shuts down any warrior.

Hammer warrior: Knocks down.. intterupts.... interrupts... adds status effect weakness/deep wound... knocks down.... continued. That is'nt shutting anyone down.

Of course weakness can cause problems for other warriors but it will not shut them down alone. So it is'nt a shut down class. Maybe people who see you claiming you shut down people notice this and realize you must be fairly new to the game or are trying somthing risky with your build, and just dont want to take that risk.

Of course i could be wrong, show your build here and please show me how you're a shutdown type build.

toastgodsupreme · Jul 09, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creed

Hammer warriors dont shut anyone down. Maybe that's why?

Hammer warrior are for interruption.

Mesmers and Necros to a lesser extenct and shut down other classes, but a warrior cannot shut anyone down. (Unless you're planning on using Fear me with a sword and a way of doubling adrenline and a way of speeding up attack, but that's energy denial).

Anyway: Sympathetic visage / empathy / blind > shuts down any warrior.
Weakness / insidious parasite / feint heartedness > shuts down any warrior.

Hammer warrior: Knocks down.. intterupts.... interrupts... adds status effect weakness/deep wound... knocks down.... continued. That is'nt shutting anyone down.

Of course weakness can cause problems for other warriors but it will not shut them down alone. So it is'nt a shut down class. Maybe people who see you claiming you shut down people notice this and realize you must be fairly new to the game or are trying somthing risky with your build, and just dont want to take that risk.

Of course i could be wrong, show your build here and please show me how you're a shutdown type build.

What about spirit shackles > Empathy > Mind Wrack for warriors. MW has a 5 energy usage, 5 second recharge, 1 second cast time. Not bad damage.

Creed · Jul 09, 2005, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

What about spirit shackles > Empathy > Mind Wrack for warriors. MW has a 5 energy usage, 5 second recharge, 1 second cast time. Not bad damage.

Yes fair enough my simple point being Hammer warrior (as it's self a class not taking into account a persons preferance to their secoundry class) is not a shutdown class.

Zeru · Jul 09, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

why on earth would you design a mind wrack build to target warriors and/or rangers (What spirit shackles is good for). SS is a decent hex on rangers mainly because they rely on energy so badly but mind wrack should be thrown in the trash most of the time. The SS+MW setup is the only way MW is really useful at all because either they will take the damage or can't attack till they get a remove hex. And even then you're using it on the two classes you almost always save for last unless they get separated from the monks and then MW isn't that good anyway.

Mesmers can shut down two casters at once. Hammer wars aren't nearly as proficient as dom mes but they can still screw up one target pretty badly with triple knockdowns/frenzy and are great for starting off spike combos (probably the most mesmer like setup outside of maybe a debil/distract ranger). Yeah they're countered hard with wards and various hexes; blind is cured fast though. The anti-war bias in the metagame seems to be fading, at least in tombs.

Meimei · Jul 09, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Devastating Hammer {Elite} - Hammer Attack
If Devastating Hammer hits, your target is knocked down and suffers from weakness for 20 seconds.

Crushing Blow - Hammer Attack
If this attack hits, you strike for 20 more damage. If you hit a knocked-down enemy, you inflict a deep wound, lowering your target's maximum health by 20% for 20 seconds

Heavy Blow - Hammer Attack
Lose all adrenaline. If this attack hits a foe suffering from weakness, that foe is knocked down and you strike for 30 more damage.

Plague Touch - Skill
Transfer a negative condition from yourself to target touched foe.

Warrior's Cunning - Skill
For 10 seconds your melee attacks cannot be blocked or evaded.

Rend Enchantments - Spell
Target foe loses 4 Enchantments. For each Monk Enchantment removed, you take 40 damage.

Frenzy - Stance
For 8 seconds, you attack 33% faster, but take double damage.

Res Signet - Signet

I can just kill caster or ranger even at 100% health directly if i get full adrenaline, if they are not dead then they are nearly dead. Frenzy allow me to speed up my attack speed and animation per swing.

This is what i can do when i get frenzy buff
devastating hammer(knockdown) > crushing blow > regular attack > heavy blow(knockdown) > regular attack > regular attack > regular attack. The target will be knockdown twice and can not move at full time untill the 3rd regular attack ends.

this is how dmg works on casters and rangers on avarage hit.
50(knockdown) > 100(deep wound if target hp 500)+70 > 50 > 80(knockdown) > 50 > 50 > 50. total of 500 dmg not consider critical hit.

Spideyknight · Jul 13, 2005, 07:29 AM // 07:29

I'd replace Warrior's Cunning with Rigor Mortis. Unless you have a specific reason for wanting to deal with the 60 second recharge.

Phades · Jul 13, 2005, 07:37 AM // 07:37

It wouldnt interfere with his frenzy stance either, unlike warrior cunning. The only reason not to, would be if he was worried about the target just removing the hex or being unable to be targeted with spells.

Meimei · Jul 13, 2005, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Warrior's Cunning and Frenzy doesn't override, you can have both at once. The problem with Rigor Mortis is that it has 2 secs casting time and my target will get away and sometimes Rigor Mortis worn off before i could reach my target. Warrior's Cunning has no casting time, it's instant and i can use it any time when i reach them. And 10 secs is enough to kill my target.

ElderAtronach · Jul 13, 2005, 10:07 AM // 10:07

What about wild blow to counter stances?

Phades · Jul 13, 2005, 10:17 AM // 10:17

I havent seen stances stack before.... Hmm, perhaps i should rephrase, i didnt assume those 2 to stack because no other 2 stances work at the same time. Bug maybe or oversight?

Lucian · Aug 14, 2005, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Warrior's Cunning is a Skill, not a Stance.

Entropius · Aug 14, 2005, 05:50 AM // 05:50

There are many different meanings of "shutdown".

Some people consider shutdown to be interrupts: you stop me from doing things by interrupting them as I do them. Think that'll work on a Protection monk with his 1/4 or 3/4 second spells? Probably not.

Some people consider shutdown to be making someone pay for casting spells with hexes: Backfire, Soul Leech, Guilt, Shame, etc. These don't work against teams with good hex defense, or against people who can absorb the damage of Backfire and keep right on casting (usually using Prot Spirit).

Shutdown can also be energy denial. That doesn't work against Ether Renewal crackmonkeys who keep 15/-1 items on switch.

Locking skills using Diversion, Distracting Shot, and Disrupting Shot can also be a shutdown technique. This doesn't work against slow, deliberate casters ... like monks or the less spastic Ele's ... and doesn't work against builds that have skills that work more or less independently.

However, as catharsis said, knockdowns are the one disruption technique that has no counter. Sure, you can stop the knockdowner using some method or another, but there's nothing you can do about the knockdowns themselves. Knockdowns aren't a complete shutdown (unless you spam-cast Stoning under Quickening Zephyr -- how to do this is left as an exercise to the reader), but they certainly are an effective -- and unavoidable -- form of disruption.

Kaylee Ann · Aug 14, 2005, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropius

However, as catharsis said, knockdowns are the one disruption technique that has no counter. Sure, you can stop the knockdowner using some method or another, but there's nothing you can do about the knockdowns themselves. Knockdowns aren't a complete shutdown (unless you spam-cast Stoning under Quickening Zephyr -- how to do this is left as an exercise to the reader), but they certainly are an effective -- and unavoidable -- form of disruption.

There are so many ways to stop the 'knockdowner' in this game. And last time I checked:

Balanced Stance - Stance
For 8-18 seconds, you cannot be knocked down and you do not suffer extra damage from a critical attack.

There is a way right there, besides the numerous and common things that you can do to impede a warrior, to stop knockdown. So yeah, you are incorrect.

And I am sorry, but my mesmer can 'shutdown' a hell of a lot more then a hammer warrior any day of the week. Not to mention a properly played mesmer can shutdown multiple targets at the same time, whereas a warrior is stuck to one target.